In the previous post, I indicated that I would be forwarding the following list of questions on to Paul Jones for him to do some digging.
- 1. What are the minimum academic requirements to get into UNC?
- 2. How much is the tuition for an out of state student?
- 3. How much for room and board?
- 4. What would the answers to questions 1, 2, 3 be for similar schools in Georgia, say (UGA or GRU?)
- 5. Given Kendall is a minority, with a 3.0, who won’t qualify for Pell Grant, what would his “Gap” (out of pocket costs) be to attend UNC/UGA/GRU, assuming he got all the scholarships and grants he could reasonably expect to receive according to your research?
What follows is Paul's response. But before you read it, I'd like to give you just a little bit of background on Paul. He is an Augusta native who completed his entire K-12 education via the home school route. When he was in the 7th grade he took the SAT and scored 1200. He only took it again towards the end of his high school career so that he might qualify for more scholarships by virtue of achieving a higher score, which he did. During his junior and senior years he dual-enrolled at GRU so that he could start accumulating college credits, After high school, Paul went to CIU in Columbia, SC for one semester before returning to Augusta. He is currently is currently enrolled at GRU as an English major.
Please see Paul's responses below: ......................................................
What are the minimum academic requirements to get into UNC?
This will definitely be the most involved of the five questions. While researching UNC’s academic admission standards, I found that the minimum GPA and scores required for admission, while gradually increasing since 2009, are pretty low. UNC’s website states that high school students must have a 2.5 high school gpa and have a combined Critical Reading/Math SAT score of 800. It should be stated, however, that meeting these requirements does not guarantee acceptance, although a student can calculate his or her chances of getting into the school. To do this, I found the latest admissions data from UNC. The table below contains that data and I will explain and decipher all the “admissions jargon.”
*I should also say that a high school student wanting to go to college should always check with their desired school to make sure they have met all of the university’s high school course requirements. This means that there are a certain number of high school courses a student must complete in different academic disciplines. UNC’s course requirements and other admissions requirements can be found here:
2013 UNC Admissions Data
% of applicants admitted
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28%
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SAT Reading Score
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590/700
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SAT Math
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610/710
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SAT Writing
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580/690
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The first row is pretty straight-forward. Of all students that applied to UNC in 2013, 28% were accepted into the school. This means that 72% of students that met the minimum academic requirements to get in were denied acceptance. After that, the numbers get a little more confusing. The two numbers separated by a slash are the 25th/75th percentile of students enrolled at the school. This means that, for the SAT Reading scores above, 25% of all enrolled students at UNC scored below a 590 on the critical reading section of the SAT. Likewise, 75% of all enrolled students at UNC scored below a 700 on the same section. This means that if you score above a 700 on the reading section, you are in the top 25% of all UNC students, which means you are all but guaranteed acceptance, given you have met UNC’s course requirements. If you score below a 590, you are in the bottom 25% which means your chances may not be as good as someone with a higher score, but one quarter of all UNC students were in your same score bracket, and were still accepted. Understanding the numbers in this table are critical when deciding what schools to apply to and which to count on being accepted to.
What is the tuition for an out-of-state student?
As I’m sure you are aware, there is often a big difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition. In the case of UNC, that difference is substantial to say the least. The cost for an in-state student is about $8,334 per year*. An out-of-state student, however, will pay roughly $33,416 per year*.
*Tuition varies depending on a student’s major.
How much is room and board?
Room and board is about $10,660 per year. UNC’s website estimates the total cost of attendance for an in-state student to be around $24,000 per year and about $51,000 for out-of-state-students. This and other financial information can be found athttp://admissions.unc.edu/afford/cost-of-attendance/
What would the answers to questions 1, 2, 3 be for similar schools in Georgia, say (UGA or GRU?)
Minimum Academic Requirements
GRU
The information below is from GRU’s website: http://gru.edu/admissions/freshman.php
- Minimal SAT Scores: Critical Reading of 430 and Math 400 or minimal ACT Scores: of 17 for English and 17 for Mathematics
UGA
UGA’s academic requirements are a little more “abstract.” this statement about its acceptance policies is found on the school’s website:
“UGA has no minimum GPA or test score requirements, and almost all first-year applicants predict an ability to do C+ work or better at UGA. The odds of being offered admission, then, are truly driven by how strong a student looks relative to the rest of the applicant pool; applicants are competing against one another for admission to UGA.”
“UGA has no minimum GPA or test score requirements, and almost all first-year applicants predict an ability to do C+ work or better at UGA. The odds of being offered admission, then, are truly driven by how strong a student looks relative to the rest of the applicant pool; applicants are competing against one another for admission to UGA.”
This means that the chances of a student getting in depends on what he looks like compared to the other applicants for that school year. What I mean by that is that there is no clear “cutoff” point that says, “Ok, if you have a 3.2 gpa and a 1000 SAT score you get in.” This means that the table above is even more important and a student must weigh his or her GPA and test scores against the newest data available.
Tuition
GRU
An in-state student at Georgia Regents University will pay about $7,200 per year, whereas an out of state student will pay closer to $20,000.
UGA
An in-state student at the University of Georgia will pay about $8,600 per year, whereas an out of state student will pay closer to $27,000.
Room and Board
GRU
Room and board at GRU is estimated to be about $6,700 per year.
UGA
Room and board at UGA is about $9,000 per year.
Kendall’s Chances
UNC
As we’ve already seen, Kendall’s choice of school is a very pricey one. $50,000 per year is a lot of money to have to raise. Unfortunately for him, choosing to go to school out-of-state not only increases the price of tuition, but also disqualifies him for many scholarships-- the Georgia HOPE scholarship being the main one. The school does offer many scholarships and so do many other “third-party” or “private” scholarships such as the Watson-Brown Foundation in Thomson, GA. This scholarship is both a merit and need-based grant. Should Kendall continue to pursue academic excellence, there is no reason he would not be eligible to receive this scholarship. Because Kendall is not eligible for federal aid in the form of grants, the university and private scholarships will be his only method of cutting the cost of tuition. According to the University, the average school-awarded financial aid package is $18,000. This package, along with $5,000 from Watson-Brown, has already cut his cost nearly in half. There are countless scholarships out there ranging from $2,000-$7,000 for students just like Kendall. Assuming he applies for 30 scholarships (this may seem like a high number, but it’s necessary if your son is set on receiving $200,000 education), and is only awarded five, that’s roughly $17,000 dollars (if the average scholarship is between $3,000 and $5,000) that he can cross off. Right now, Kendall needs about $10,000 per year to go to UNC (that’s where you come in, Dad *hint *hint) Now that figure certainly isn’t set in stone. After all, he may not get $18,000 from the school, or may get more. He may not get five private scholarships, or he may get ten. The only way to find an exact number is, when he graduates, to work tirelessly on finding as much financial aid as possible.
UGA and GRU
Because Kendall is a Georgia resident and would be attending a Georgia University, he qualifies for financial aid from the government. He can expect between $5,000 and $7,000 from the Hope Scholarship. That, in addition to the Watson-Brown scholarship, adds up to roughly $12,000 in financial aid which, compared to the tuition costs of UGA and GRU, is a substantial chunk of his total cost. Work-study programs and private scholarships should be more than enough to cover the cost of room and board. Given the data, should Kendall decide to stay in-state to go to college, his out-of-pocket costs should be minimal.
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Thanks.
Keenan
Questions for Paul:
ReplyDeleteYou wrote the following:
"This means that if you score above a 700 on the reading section, you are in the top 25% of all UNC students, which means you are all but guaranteed acceptance, given you have met UNC’s course requirements."
Is this true? Common wisdom in the process of applying to “selective schools” (which I assume UNC is) or specific to UNC?
I would guess that a certain level of performance in Math and Writing would be needed to ensure “guaranteed acceptance.” Or is that not true? And if it is true, what are those levels? And about the writing section of the SAT, does UNC look at this? I think I read that 72% of the admissions departments claim not to consider the writing score. Does that sound accurate and do you know if UNC is a “28%” or a “72%” school?
And you wrote this:
"Now that figure certainly isn’t set in stone. After all, he may not get $18,000 from the school, or may get more. He may not get five private scholarships, or he may get ten. The only way to find an exact number is, when he graduates, to work tirelessly on finding as much financial aid as possible."
Is “when he graduates” the only time to start? I would think that applying for these scholarships should be done (if possible) as soon as possible so you can be lining up other opportunities in case the scholarship awards are less than anticipated. But I suppose it is possible that the schools accept or reject you in the Spring and that they won’t tell you your awards (the ones given by the school at least) until the summer so they can get you committed and just have you take out loans for whatever the gap is between the awards and the total cost.
And I’ll end with an observation. Because of the economic incentives, UNC is more likely than UGA to admit Kendall because, as an out of state student, Kendall will by definition pay more money to attend than his competitors in North Carolina. This article is dated (2011), but it details the trend in schools admitting more out of staters and showing preference to them over in staters.
The school will not only show preference in the admissions process, but it will also practice sound economic thinking while choosing the amount of scholarship awards to give to Kendall and his North Carolina based competitors. UNC can “give” Kendall $18,000 in “scholarship money” and still receive $15,000 from Kendall (33,000 - 18,000) and “give” a North Carolina based student $0 in “scholarship money” and receive only his $8,000 in state tuition check. So by maximizing its revenue, UNC is able to also make Kendall feel like he is getting something the North Carolina resident isn’t getting, even though the North Carolina resident is making the more economical choice.
So school awarded “scholarship” isn’t real money. It is a price cut tailored to make its most profitable customers. Kendall may still want to go to UNC. But he shouldn’t fool himself into thinking his $18,000 scholarship award is better for him (economically speaking) than his potential $0 reward from GRU and UGA.
Chad,
ReplyDeleteConcerning your first question, I can see how my wording about the SAT scores was not quite right. A 700 reading score does NOT guarantee acceptance. What I should have said was that a 700 reading score, IN ADDITION to at least an average or better math score will give you an advantage when it comes to acceptance. Conversely, if you're an exceptionally good math student, and an average or better English student, you'll have the same advantage. As for the writing section, I've never actually come into contact with a school that pays much attention to the writing section of the ACT. In my first paragraph, I wrote, "high school students must have a 2.5 high school gpa and have a combined Critical Reading/Math SAT score of 800," which leads me to believe that UNC does not look at the writing section.
In regard to when a student can and should start applying for scholarships, again, my fingers typed faster than my brain! Where I wrote, "when he graduates," I should have written, "when he is a senior." There is no reason why Kendall and any other high school senior should not begin searching for and filling out the necessary paperwork for scholarships as early as October of his or her senior year. Most scholarships have a specific period of time in which you can submit your application. Some start as early as October, others much later. The tricky part here is not submitting your application until you have all the information necessary to complete it (some scholarships will ask for your gpa and test scores up to your senior year. These are usually the scholarships with early deadlines. Others want you to wait to submit your application until your senior year is over and that year can be included as well.) That being said, there is no reason a student can not get started earlier and fill in information as he or she gets it.
About your final observation, you are definitely right! It is not as if UNC is writing Kendall a check to go towards his tuition. In reality, this "price cut" is a way to entice out-of-state students to come and give the University more money than in-state students. My goal in writing the above response to Keenan's questions was to illustrate Kendall's options but I realize now I never put it in the simplest terms possible-- he can choose to attend UNC for four years for somewhere around $40,000, or he can attend GRU or UGA at little to no cost. I hope this helped clear things up.
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ReplyDeleteThank you Paul. I think Keenan has some follow up questions and maybe a request for an additional blog post or maybe just continued discussion here. I do too. Your last comment about the "free in GA versus $40k in NC" summary made me think of possible "third and fourth ways." As you summarized, your analysis shows that public in state is significantly cheaper than public out of state. And that local (GRU) is cheaper than "away from home" (UGA). What if you make the third option one that is even less expensive than GRU? Online universities may allow students to live at home and pay considerably less tuition than GRU and UGA. That said, I can't name one off the top of my head. So look into that. And the 4th option is my personal favorite: using CLEP exams (roughly 40 tests in all at $70 per test) to satisfy your undergraduate credits. Thomas Edison State College will charge $1,000 - $2,000 for the administrative work needed to verify that you passed the CLEP tests and therefore deserve a degree from their accredited institution. But check that out and see if I am right.
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